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Red Merle To A Red Tri Makes All Red?

by Carissa
(Tampa, Fl)

Cherry is the merle and Comet is the tri

I have a red merle Australian shepherd female and red tri male that I plan to breed when they are both old enough. I have talked to several breeders and done my own research and have found that when a red is bred to a red it produces all red puppies... which is what want. However, I just talked to a Vet and he told me no?

So what kind of puppies will I get? All red merles and red tris or a mix??

Comments for Red Merle To A Red Tri Makes All Red?

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Red
by: Av8r091

Depends on which color is dominant, if red and black are dominant/recessive genes. If red is recessive, and there are no other recessive alleles for that trait, then expect red tri and red Merle offspring from a red Merle red tri cross.

You never know
by: Anonymous

I bred my blue merle with my red tri and got 4 black tris and one blue merle. From my knowledge, you can end up with any variety of colors. Unless your reds come from an entirely red bloodline you could very well end up with black tris or blue merles or even a tri merle. We're hoping to get a red Merle one day, but it's never guaranteed what you will wind up with.

Genetics
by: Anonymous

The gene for red dogs is recessive so breeding a red to a red merle will produce all red or red merle puppies. The merle ing gene is separate from the color gene. So there are basically 2 colors for Aussies, black and red with black being dominant. There are other genes that effect color but the base gene will be BB (black) Bb (black that carries red) or bb (red). Both your dogs are bb so all puppies produced by them will be bb or red. The genes that affect markings are a little more complicated and I'm still learning about them myself. There was a great website that explained all the color genes with pictures of real life examples bit I can't find it any more.

Red pups
by: Anonymous

I have a red Merle male and bred with red tri. I was blessed with 5 red Merle and 7 red tri pups. No blue and no black. Beautiful litter of reds.

Red Merle to Red Tri
by: Mary Walton

That is what you should get but last litter I got a beautiful blue tri that is not a recognized AKC color. When I researched this is a recessive of the red color.

Color determination
by: Dan V.

Aussie coloration is determined by a gene made of two alleles (one from each parent). The black allele is dominant and the red is recessive. That means any dog in which any part of the pair is black will be always a black/black bi/black tri/blue merle. In order for a dog to be red both alleles must be red. A red dog can never carry a black allele since it would then be black instead and so two reds can never produce a black pup.

Now, a black dog can carry the red allele and still be black. The red allele can still be passed to the pups, so breeding a black and a red or even two blacks can produce red pups.

Your pups should be a mix of red merles and red tris, but no blacks at all.

breeding
by: Anonymous

you breed a red to a red merle you will get an all red litter, it could be all red tri's or all red merles or a combo of both.
if you breed a red to a blue or black you will get most likely get blue's and black's and they will be red factored so if you breed one of those pup with a red you could get all 4 colors.

Thanks for the response!
by: Carissa

Thank you so much everyone for all of the feedback!
So I am going to get all reds, like I thought unless we get recessive reds-which would be awesome!!
I had already done quite a bit of research regarding colors(not really the merling or not cause that doesn't too much matter to me lol) and when the Vet told me everything I thought was right was wrong I was so thrown! Comets(male) Mom was a very LIGHT red almost blonde and his Dad was a blue merle. Cherrys(female) Mom was black tri and her Dad was also a blue merle but I know red is recessive and that Cherrys parents both came from a red parent as well.

Mary Walton-would love to see a pic of that pup!

Coat Genetics Charts
by: Anonymous

I found a great webpage that shows what you get with each different breeding: Coat Genetics

My Pup was Born from Such a Litter
by: Nicholle

Don't know if it's too late to contribute or not, but I basically paid in full for a pup from two red parents (red tri dad and red merle, almost blond mom) and yes, as far as I know, the litter is a combo of reds. I didn't ask to see pictures of them all though, cuz I wanted a male specifically. Mom had two males. Red bi, and red merle with somewhat off markings (he has a white head except one of his ears is colored, but the rest of his body is normal). But yeah, I wouldn't worry too much, you'll probably get the colors you want, although in a rare case, a blue might show up. ^.^

helpful article
by: Anonymous

Read this informative article by the folks at the Australian Shepherd Club of America. You will find your answer: all red.

Color of Pups
by: lbrown2969@yahoo.com

All I know is I have had these dogs for ever love them and have been looking for a red tri please contact me! I'm sure they all will be beautiful !

all reds
by: Anonymous

I cannot see a date, so for all I know this was posted 2 years ago!

Anyhow, thought I would still answer just in case.

Someone said in the rare case you may get a blue merle. No. You won't. A red x red litter will produce ONLY reds.

Black (B) is dominant. Red (b) is recessive. BB and Bb are both black dogs. A red dog is always bb.

Merle is a color modifier, or pattern, not a color itself. Merle (M) is dominant to a solid (m). So Mm is a merle dog. mm is a solid dog. And MM is a double merle (which you want to avoid).

Breeding a red merle (bbMm) to a solid red (bbmm) will produce both merles and solids, but again, only reds. It doesn't matter if one of them has a blue or black parent.

Best way to help visualize it would be to use a punnett square :)

Hope I wasn't too late to help!

Interested in studding your red Tri?
by: Anonymous

Would you be interested in studding your red Tri by chance? We are looking for a red Tri for our girl in her next heat for a stud fee. If you are interested please let me know.
You can email me at scatteredoaksranch@aol.com
Thank you

You really must learn the basic color genetics to breed responsibly
by: Michael

First the essential: one never breeds merle to merle as the 1/4 who are double merle are tragically harmed.

Second, the B locus gene determines black (or its RECESSIVE diluted version, brown, what is sometimes called "red" but is not a true red).

BB or Bb are black dogs, the latter carrying "red."

bb is red.

Your red tri is a bb (plus he has a black and tan gene or two).

Your red merle is bb (plus she has one merle gene).

So ALL OF YOUR PUPS MUST BE bb -- "reds".

Statistically, half red merle, half red or red tri.

NOTHING BLACK -- no blue merle, no black tri, no black bi, no b/t are possible in this breeding.

Good luck.

Note from Anton: Read more about Australian Shepherd Colors and Markings here.

Chocolate brown
by: Anonymous

I just have a short question. Is a dark almost chocolate "red tri" an acceptable color variation, or is that considered in some way to be a defect? Thanks for the information on the genetics. I just had a litter of 4 black tris, one blue merle, and one red merle from a blue merle dam and a red tri sire. Was hoping for more red though.

Merle Poodle & Golden doodle
by: Jamie

Just a quick question. So if I breed my red mini golden doodle to a Red Merle poodle that carries for Sable, Phantom and brindle I will most likely get all reds? What if I bread her to a Blue Merle that carries for black, Brown and Parti? Would I most likely get all black? FYI-the dad of the doodle was red with no merle in his background.
Thanks so much for all your help

Reds
by: CCC

The color red is a recessive gene. A red dog has received recessive red from both parents. So if two red dogs are bred together, then they can only produce red offspring, because they can only donate recessive red color. But, that means that their pups are guaranteed to have red noses only. Other genes, such as the piebald, could cause color mismatches such as excessive or even all white, diluted reds which may look blonde, etc. They cannot produce a black offspring.

Reds
by: Anonymous

A black tri, bi, or merle (blue merle) can be recessive red Br, or double black Bb. If it is recessive red black then it appears black, one of its parents was a red or at least recessive red. I have a black tri whose father was a red tri. So my black tri has to be black dominant red recessive. If I bred him to a red dog, I would expect red and black pups in the litter. If I bred him to another black, I could end up with red and black pups if the mate is also red recessive black dominant, but probably fewer reds than black. However, under most circumstances, two reds will produce only red pups, unless there are some other genetic abnormalities.

Be responsible, get your dogs fixed
by: Anonymous

You’ve "done quite a bit of research" but yet have no understanding of basic genetics or coat color and need someone to explain the concept of red=recessive. Yeah, right. This conversation about backyard breeding is disgusting. And for the person seeking a "stud" for "your girl in heat"- you sound like a pimp.

Everyone has to learn
by: CCC

Please pay no attention to the negative comments about your lack of knowledge of breeding. At one time, none of them knew anything about breeding, and none know everything about breeding and every exact outcome even now.

Here is some advice I can offer you. Never breed merle to merle, b/c their babies can be blind and/or deaf.

Don’t breed close relatives and try to breed dogs that have no known blood relatives. Red and red can produce only red, but black/blue might produce black/blue, or even a red offspring.

Be prepared to keep and raise all your puppies if you cannot find them good adoptive homes. You cannot pound dump puppies you intentionally bring into this world. Be prepared to work your butt off when those pups start eating food, because you will become mom in the feeding, watering, and the cleanup department, which is especially gross and time consuming.

Take time to put your hands on those puppies everyday from the day they are born to acclimate them to humans, but limit that activity to a very few people until they receive at least one vaccination.

You must be prepared to keep them off all grass, soil, and contaminated surfaces (like the vets office floor where sick dogs have been, pet stores, shopping carts, etc) until they have had all their vaccines, ALL VACCINES, and your prospective families must adhere to that as well.

You need to feed them and mom a quality puppy foodand mom needs a supplementfrom your vet (get the powder kind or else grind the big pill in a food processor for easier administering to mom) while she is nursing and for you to have that the day she gives birth.

Have some puppy canned and dry food on hand before arrival day, and start feeding mom dry puppy food during her last 4 weeks of pregnancy and the entire time she is nursing. You can mix her supplement in the can food for a nice treat to get her to take her much needed milk supplements.

You will need a large crate to keep puppies separated from mom while they are weening off of her milk but close enough for her to be able to see them.

Be prepared to spend up to a couple thousand dollars for pregnancy x-rays before and after and in case your mom needs a c-section, and be prepared to spend that with the possibility of no surviving puppies.

You will also need $200 to $500 for puppy exams and vaccinesat 6 weeks of age. Most states require owners to keep puppies near mom for the first 8 or more weeks, which means with you for that amount of time too.

I cannot stress to you enough, you cannot let those puppies get on the ground or on possibly contaminated surfaces until after all their vaccines which is usually up to 15 weeks of age.

Good luck, and God Bless.

Red Tri and Red Merle
by: Anonymous

Recently acquired an Aussie pup. He looks black and white (tri) but the breeder paper says he's a red tri whose color is red merle? Is that right? I know his parents are red tri and red merle.

To the rude know-it-alls
by: Anonymous

To all the rude commentators - There was a time when you didn’t have a clue, not one. You also had to learn the basics. Everyone has to learn somewhere. People can breed their dogs even without knowing everything about genetics. When someone reaches out on an Australian Shepherd Lover's website and is greeted by your completely rude comments, it’s sooo horrible of you to act that way. Try to be helpful for a change instead of acting like you’re better than others. Don’t call someone a backyard breeder because you most likely started out the exact same way. Get over yourself. Glad to see there are mostly kind people willing to help someone understand.

X-rays and getting a red merle from 2 black parents
by: Anonymous

You will not have to spend several thousand dollars on xrays for your pregnancy. You can have x-rays done around day 50 and will know how many puppies there are and vet can see bone structure etc. I just had one done 2 weeks ago (cost was $100). He said 5 puppies for my 25 pound Mini Aussie blue merle that was bred to a small Mini black tri and she just had those 5 pups one black tri, 3 blue merles, and last pup was a female red merle. Both mom and dad had red merle fathers. So that recessive red gave me that beautiful red merle girl which I was hoping for but not expecting.

Red merle to red bicolor
by: Anonymous

I just had a litter of 6 from my Red merle bred to a red and white poodle. 4 merle (2 red, 1 chocolate. 1 blue), 1 red bi or maybe tri, 1 black and white or maybe tri. While I realize the red poodle isn't an aussie, his is a bicolor, mostly dark red. I was surprised to see black/blue.

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